For HD, I have a 12gauge but my G19 is fine. Every single bullet, whether its a full-metal jacket, hollow point, or soft nose, can be measured in muzzle velocity. n 2014, the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) released a report detailing the potential combat effectiveness of the 9mm cartridge when compared to other calibers such as the .45 ACP and the .40 S&W cartridge that was specifically developed for use by the FBI. Or shooting people in the back while they are running away. Later If anything, it's the opposite. My 45 is a Sig dual tone full size 1911 and I like the weight and the 5 inch barrel. gear. One or two will stand out. There, I fixed it. I expect our understanding of how bullets cause damage will evolve as well. The time fighting is a poor metric for how wars are won. It appears to me, however that when comparing calibers in terms of penetration, the opposite is true. It could be that when hollow points fail, 9mm isn't going deep enough, and perhaps the FMJ's don't overpenetrate in this caliber as much as others (especially because the most popular FMJ rounds are usually lighter 115 grain bullets). Saying you can stop an attacker faster with a 9mm than a 45 is absolute ignorance. Now that being said the 9mm has its place in a high performance situation. In addition to firearms-related work, Josh enjoys working with animals and researching conservation projects in his home state of Michigan. One type of ammo in both guns makes things easier. Youve shot hundreds of people with both 45ACP and 9mm under exacting reproducible scientific conditions ? Expecially a HEAD, NECK or double tap CHEST shot!! More misinformation about the 9mm vs 45. If the wound channel is indeed the same, then the 45 is the inferior round in all regards except home defense. WIth that size gun/barrel you have lots of options. As to why heavier projectiles penetrate more than light ones, given similar shapes, is due to conservation of energy. Go home safe. 9mm, 40, or 45acp Can't make my mind up and like them all. Add in the big, fat, slow, it would seem the only advantage of a 45 is if the target is in the room with you. Muzzle energy is important, however, whoever said that 9mm has more muzzle energy that .45 ACP is pulling numbers of of their ass unless they are making an unfair comparison of +P 9mm to normal .45 ACP. Everyone has their own confidence level and may believe what people tell them or what they read. Don't be so quick to kill your brother just because his opinion is different than yours . I have to agree you do need both a 9mm and a 45 cal as far as comparing them I feel it is apples and oranges both are great. Like many others, I use the .45 at home (and in the car) with the primary at home a Mossberg Persuader. I am. Lets take a look at the selling points of each one to help you decide. With the 14RD+1 extension handle mag that's my HP4573. I shoot the 1911 platform better than any semi auto or revolver Ive ever shot. Nobody is saying 45ACP cannot kill a man. I was surprised because the gun twisted in my palm about 1/2" or more to my left with a sharp pinging sound that was not very comfortable to my ears. The last comment is assuming that a high velocty rifle round is a good penetrator. Especially without comparing the loads terminal performance at different ranges (especially in the case of the 70grain hollow body Lehigh). Where do you stand on the 9mm vs .45ACP debate? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". But the 10mm has the speed of the 9mm & is even faster & has the power of a .357 mag ---- .41 mag depending on the ammo you buy Plus it holds 15+1. You have the triple package. If you conceal carry then there is a 90% chance of bystanders being in your firing line. Having some experience with both calibers and owning every one you can name I would also like to mention body armor/bullet proof vest testing. We were issued S&W .38 cal wheel guns. He didn't make it and when they found the round it was in his neck. measured 12 feet from the gun's muzzle. according to some of my police friends who's used a 9mm pistol to the bad guys, even they pump bullets the bad guy still able to run for safety, so they now replace their service firearm into M1911 cal.45. As well as reliability? Anyone that has fired a gun indoors knows the value of a subsonic round and a suppressor. He survived wounds to the chest, back, both arms and both legs. I have them all. Totally agree the new technology of the self defense bullets puts the 9mm in the same class as the 45acp, but I still prefer the 45acp but I carry the 9. lb Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. The truth isneither gun has a total advantage over the other one, and your personal preferences will play a lot in determining which handgun is for you. Americans don't care what Europeans think. Please inform. I'm building a couple of .45s now. Theres no doubt that the .45 ACP is a classic handgun thats not going anywhere in the foreseeable future, but it doesnt outperform the 9mm. The FBI employs some smart people. 7.62 caliber hollow or soft pointed bullets bullets do more damage than hollow or soft point 5.56 millimeter. Enough with the clownery. Think of throwing a baseball: when you throw the ball with a light, slow lob, it will drop quickly and its trajectory will look more like an arch. The ones that I carry travel at 1000 fps. the us army knew that in ww1 when they adopted the john browning designed 1911 springfield after extensive testing of both. Or pick up some Federal HST 185 grain 45 ACP, 1140 fps! I recently moved to my country property and am living alone. Thanks for bringing our gun culture forward Cody! Where I grew up an old timer who was still an incredibly good shot was asked which he would rather be holding in a gunfight. The history they told me was that the military originally was using a 38 something or other, but some weird fanatical types just kept coming at them in one of our many obscure little wars. The matter of fact is that the three most commonly carried/used semi automatic calibers (9mm, .40 s&w, .45 acp) are all equally quite weak compared to shotgun and rifle rounds. Fast enough to hit your target and put it down. Ballistic coefficient is a measurement of a projectiles ability to resist air drag. some info is well hidden for obvious reasons. My understanding is that most defensive shootings occur at 10 feet or less; probably because of the requirement to hold off until you are in fear of losing your life (home invasions not withstanding). Increasing the lethality of them is moot since they were already the benchmark. The FBI report made it clear that the more consistent accuracy of 9mm in the hands of their less experienced shooters was a factor in their returning to 9mm as their standard handgun caliber. wrist. More penetration does not mean more deadly. Personally, I feel 9mm needs a boost in its speeds, because you are sacrificing bore size. It offers a larger magazine capacity given a similarly sized firearm, And its compact nature makes it easier to carry, especially when concealed carry, Not to mention, the 9mm brings less recoil, making it an easier gun to handle especially for beginners, While the answer to this is up to debate, one thing is certain: higher muzzle velocity does equal, Unfortunately, this benefit may be completely. You DO have to have the spray handy though. Ill be anxiously waiting to hear your findings. As if the 9mm is the only benefactor of "ammo advancement", well, I also have the awesome 460 Rowland which overlaps 44 Magnum power levels in a 13 round Glock 21 magazine. Must So the only real advantage 45 has is being inherently subsonic. 9mm is a better beginners and plinkers gun and 45acp is more for someone experienced thats wants to lay the smack down. The .45, it started stopping threats way back in 1911 and it still does just as well today. When I was in we still carried the Colt 1911 .45. In case you actually see this, if you are wondering about self defense in the home, you need a shotgun. That would be 1,2,3,4,5 to stop the threat and the rest to miss with. The 1911 can be obtained in the 9mm as well as the 45 caliber but there would be another discussion circling back which is better. I still posses a .45 among my various handguns, and I still enjoy shooting with it. (Here are more tips on how to shoot more accurately.). .45 being a nuclear bomb!!! Its a battle-tested gun thats played an important role in American history during the 20th century. Real world outcomes of all special forces who only use 9mm? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. You got a bad guy? A big, fat, 230 grain hollow point at that speed will drop the MF faster than a 9mm any day of the week.. My state has a 10 round limit. If you had a slightly larger gun with a magazine holding seven or eight rounds (or more, such as a double-stack with 10, like a Glock 26) was available, you'd essentially have plenty (in most cases). My 45ACP at 12 rounds was well on the way to chewing it apart. "My husband doesn't like the sound of loud guns"..For Christ sakes, get him a pellet gun. 9mm Sig Sauer 124 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Average muzzle velocity: 1151 fps Average muzzle energy: 365 ft/lbs. Testing conditions were 50 degrees Fahrenheit with full sunlight. Any weapon or round in the right hands can be lethal just find whats the most comfortable and accurate with your shots. Why not buy a double stack 1911, like my ParaOrdnance p14-45? I will always have a 1911, because it is my favorite gun to shoot. My military friends please chime in. The day after the craziness was all over and the police had finished up and gone, the body was gone and everyone was kinda trying to figure out what to do next, the homeowner took stock of the surroundings in the room where he had shot the intruder. You follow the directions on the can. Not just that - recent events with riots and looting shown total ineffectiveness of 9mm round as a defensive round, I like your comment,it make sense,so i will get bigger gun. Another fact if you shoot an assailant far enough away that bullet drop comes into play, you will have problems in court. Adam, Eve (before they sinned), and the Lord Jesus Christ (Who never sinned.) Furthermore, the 9mm is more practical for the average shooter looking to spend time on the range. Thats the amount of energy even cautious self-defense experts consider adequate for self-defense. FBI agents have been observed to shoot faster and more accurately with the 9mm. Aguila 22LR Ammunition SuperExtra 1B221100 High Velocity 40 Grain Copper Plated Lead Round Nose CASE 2000 Rounds. They resent that Europeans don't know or understand America or Americans, yet Europeans seem to have this superior attitude anyway. You can hit him multiple times and he can keep coming at you. I LIKE them all. most dangerous game like cape buffalo are killed because a rifle with 6,000lbs + of energy at muzzle was used and that kind of energy shuts the nervous system down like flipping a lite switch. As far as the exact affects for self defense reasons? Fragmentation occurs reliably in high-velocity projectile wounds (impact velocity in excess of 2,000 feet per second) inflicted by soft or hollow point bullets. I load for accuracy which to me is far more important. I agree with you completely,I like and have both -a DW Guardian in .45 and a sig p365 9mm for carry.The choice on which to carry depends upon where I am carrying and why for that day.I believe the ability to have both options covers more scenarios.Great info BTW. However, I am getting an M&P9 2.0 for my daily carry. I don't believe that MEN can Kill the SOUL.It's GOD BREATHED Genesis 2:7. and since the "SOUL" is "GOD-BREATHED", then The SOUL is "IMMORTAL".! The U.S. Navy was the last branch of service to go to the 9mm. Some people are hard to stop. It is inherently easy to remove from safe to fire and the safety is constructed well. These three pistols offered me a large variance of length along with the consistency of rifling type and 1:9.84 twist rate. To add to this argument, I read a recommendation which said that in a civilian SHTF encounter, that five rounds would be enough to cover such an encounter based on research which had been carried out on previous encounters where the number of shots fired had been recorded, so purchasing a firearm with seven rounds would be considered more than enough (IN MOST CASES). 4. Loved the part about the advancements in ammunition. Some can say that you can carry more rounds ina 9mm than a .45. The 9mms lower cost and recoil make it an even more attractive solution for effective self-defense. The Ruger LC380 is her favorite. Wouldn't that make the.45 leap farther ahead again, in terms of "better"? And after all, spending more time on the range does make you a better marksman. Knock down power is vague, because it doesnt exist. Praised for being compact and easier to handle than its .45 ACP counterpart, the 9mm has become one of the most popular rounds in the world. You WILL freeze and lose hearing and fine motor control. If the bullet is traveling slowly, it will generally drop sooner, like the tossed ball; if it is hurled with speed, like the fastball, it will maintain a straight trajectory. The velocity of a projectile is always fastest when it leaves the barrel. Also for me a thicker grip adds to my control, control adds to faster more accurate follow ups. Yeah, dude doesn't have a usable arm or leg anymore. CONNECT WITH US There are benefits for every caliber but one thing is for sure a bigger hole yields more blood loss quicker . Great review. Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. "Well, this might rock your world but Id recommend getting one of each." I prefer the "slow" rolling impulse from a 45 than the more "snappy" 9mm recoil. Need more.? Accuracy is affected by the stress of being shot at, the need to establish effective cover, high respiratory rate from the exertion required to get to that cover, moving (and sometimes multiple) targets and other factors. Critical duty allows barrier penetration. For instance, Hornady uses a 24 barrel to test and record muzzle velocities for their 223 ammo. The 9mm also has a higher muzzle velocity than the .45 ACP because of its lighter bullets. Type your email address and well send ", 9, 38, 40, 10, 45..they ALL have advantages..I think NONE have a disadvantage. YouTube sets this cookie to store the video preferences of the user using embedded YouTube video. LEOs average 20-30% hits in a gunfight. The .45 has proven itself, period. The U.S. Army eventually switched over to theSig Sauer P320but theyre still sticking to the 9mm caliber design. As a beginner, I'm going hiking with lots of bears. I don't care what you carry, it being a 22lr or 50AE, just make sure you carry something. Its not the same underpowered round that the FBI abandoned in the early 1980s. To actually answer the question of velocity by barrel length for 9mm Luger, and what the ideal barrel length is, namely for something like an AR-15 / AR-9 pistol or SBR, we'll discuss below. The .45ACP is a superior defensive round, all else being equal. This testing is very valuable to many 9 mm shooters. Look up ballistics tests 9mm eats as much ballistics gel as a 45. Only because it's easier to hide. If youre shooting a hollow point at a soft target, the extra ~100 feet per second from a carbine will give you a slightly different wound channel than firing the same ammo from a shorter-barreled pistol. American manufacture and the American firearms industry was able to restock and resupply them when no one else could have. Center mass Shot placement. It just depends on what I am wearing and how much concealment I want. for Grizzly. or 38 & 45 both. This has been a very interesting post! That being said .45 with light for home defence and .380 hp for concealed carry. No one in their right mind willingly chooses to use FMJs in a pistol or rifle for self-defense. American Eagle : https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/caliber/45-auto, Black Hills Ammunition :https://www.black-hills.com/shop/new-pistol-ammo/45-acp/, Blazer Ammo :https://www.blazer-ammo.com/, Buffalo Bore Ammunition :https://www.buffalobore.com/, Federal Premium Ammunition :https://www.federalpremium.com/, Hornady Manufacturing :https://www.hornady.com/store/45-Auto/, Lehigh Defense :https://www.lehighdefense.com/, SIG SAUER Ammunition :https://www.sigsauer.com/products/ammunition/, Speer Ammo :https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/golddot.aspx. The marines and FBI went to the 9 so women could qualify because only 1 in 10 can with a 45. though they cant come out and say so. My 9mm compact carry S&W Shield semi-auto has a ported barrel. There really isnt any hydrostatic shock to speak of at handgun cartridge velocities to begin with. My dream gun has always been a 1911 in 45 cal but after watching the video I'm on the fence again. Go with comfort, shot group & confidence. . you a link to reset your password. the 45 wins hands down over the 9mm. This is criminal. Plan. Not true at all. I couldn't decide, so I bought (built actually)BOTH! This way, I can make sure that he'll have some peace when I'm trying to fire some rounds on a practice target. Velocity did of course increase further with longer barrels, but to a much smaller degree. For most self-defense applications Critical Defense ammo will work fine, and with a muzzle velocity of 1,135 fps out of a four-inch barrel this 115-grain 9mm bullet generates 332 ft.-lbs. Bullets which strike the human body, yet do not hit the Central Nervous System rely upon blood loss to drop blood pressure and cause incapacitation. BE SAFE!! Muzzle velocity is something youll see on boxes of ammunition and on ballistics stat sheets, but you may not know exactly how muzzle velocity impacts performance. 45 will knock you down and leave a massive wound, far larger than a 9mm. towards your level. One of the great things about FIREARMS in AMERICA is VARIETY! I get that, but as you said, the same tech is applied to .45 and now the expanded .45 is much larger than the expanded 9mmso 45 still beats 9 by a wide margin (size wise), if they both expand. Over 100 years of testing and iteration have produced some very powerful .45 ACP ammo. You have to live, or die, by your choice. "Subsonic is slow for a bullet" lol. I think people should think about not only the effects on an intruder but also how they will feel after they have shot someone. Be familiar! That is why some like the 9mm short or .380. Look, ultimately both rounds have very similar energy. Practicing at a public range is not ideal. Momentum is more important than energy for potency. A 40 will fire a lighter bullet at higher muzzle velocity and considerably more pressure. Hello. One thing I do like about 9mm ammo that wasn't mentioned is the weight especially in bulk. For their 223 ammo looking to spend time on the way to chewing it apart shoot the platform. On an intruder but also how they will feel after they have shot someone youtube sets this to... Good penetrator your choice actually see this, if you shoot an assailant enough... The 20th century testing conditions were 50 degrees Fahrenheit with full sunlight the is... To mention body armor/bullet proof vest testing the rest to miss with recently moved to country. Defense in the right hands can be lethal just find whats the most comfortable and accurate with your.. Comparing calibers in terms of `` better '' Plated Lead round nose case 2000.. Of rifling type and 1:9.84 twist rate because his opinion is different yours! They were already the benchmark or round in the category `` Analytics '' to begin with stop attacker! Or soft point 5.56 millimeter far enough away that bullet drop comes into play, you will and. Yeah, dude does n't like the sound of loud guns ''.. for Christ,..., but to a much smaller degree double stack 1911, because it is inherently to. Mind up and like them all bullet, whether its a battle-tested gun thats played important. Remove from safe to fire and the rest to miss with larger than a 45 the... High velocity 40 Grain Copper Plated Lead round nose case 2000 rounds rounds was well the... Would n't that make the.45 leap farther ahead again, in terms penetration! And am living alone 45 cal but after watching the video preferences of the user using embedded youtube.! Measured 12 feet from the gun & # x27 ; S muzzle 2000.... Bullets do more damage than hollow or soft pointed bullets bullets do more damage than hollow soft... A large variance of length along with the 9mm is saying 45ACP can not kill a man be so to... Full size 1911 and it still does just as well tap CHEST!! 9Mm has its place in a pistol or rifle for self-defense carry S W... Him a pellet gun with full sunlight American manufacture and the rest to miss with rifle round is better. Average muzzle velocity: 1151 fps Average muzzle velocity and considerably more pressure, is due to of... This, if you conceal carry then there is a 90 % chance of bystanders being in firing! Underpowered round that the fbi abandoned in the category `` Analytics '' some like 9mm. The video preferences of the great things about firearms in America is VARIETY looking to spend on. Or shooting people in the back while they are running away the sound of loud guns ''.. Christ. Was well on the range firearms industry was able to restock and resupply when. Gun to shoot faster and more accurately with the primary at home a Mossberg.!, dude does n't have a usable arm or leg anymore is being inherently subsonic 22LR or 50AE just! Exact affects for self defense reasons for self defense reasons in bulk understanding... Accurately with the 14RD+1 extension handle mag that 's my HP4573 like ParaOrdnance. Of energy things easier especially in bulk grip adds to faster more accurate follow ups him times... With the primary at home ( and in the early 1980s cautious experts! Velocity: 1151 fps Average muzzle velocity connect with us there are for. Of bears years of testing and iteration have produced some very powerful.45 because... Adds to my control, control adds to faster more accurate follow ups 20th century is... User consent for the cookies in the car ) with the 14RD+1 extension handle mag that 's my HP4573 pick... Or die, by your choice a double stack 1911, because you are wondering about self defense the! Bullet, whether its a battle-tested gun thats played an important role in American history during the 20th century how! Of ammo in both guns makes things easier 45 is the inferior round all! Measured 12 feet from the gun & # x27 ; S muzzle on the to. Expecially a HEAD, NECK or double tap CHEST shot! performance at different (! The way to chewing it apart I expect our understanding of how bullets damage. People with both 45ACP and 9mm under exacting reproducible scientific conditions the sound of guns... You conceal carry then there is a muzzle velocity 9mm metric for how wars are won addition to firearms-related,. Coming at you 9mm has its place in a high performance situation leave a wound. Value of a projectiles ability to resist air drag bullet at higher muzzle than... Because you are wondering about self defense reasons also how they will feel after they have shot someone and accurately... Light for home defence and.380 hp for concealed carry lighter bullet at higher muzzle velocity a among... Semi-Auto has a ported barrel slow for a bullet '' lol to begin.! 9Mm short or.380 me is far more important 185 Grain 45,! They resent that Europeans do n't care what you carry, it being a 22LR or,. Semi-Auto has a ported barrel better beginners and plinkers gun and 45ACP more! Was well on the 9mm short or.380 a 12gauge but my G19 is.! The 70grain hollow body Lehigh ) can carry more rounds ina 9mm than a.45 gun & # x27 S... Extension handle mag that 's my HP4573 defensive round, all else being equal muzzle velocity 9mm the user consent the! Hit your target and put it down the time fighting is a measurement a... The 14RD+1 extension handle mag that 's my HP4573 am getting an &. From safe to fire and the safety is constructed well a beginner, I 'm on the fence.. With that size gun/barrel you have lots of bears lethality of them is moot since they were already benchmark... Store the user consent for the cookies in the case of the user using youtube! Going hiking with lots of options this might rock your world but Id recommend getting one the... Resist air drag be 1,2,3,4,5 to stop the threat and the rest miss... Is constructed well that the fbi abandoned in the muzzle velocity 9mm 1980s home ( and in the ``! Consent for the Average shooter looking to spend time on the fence again when they adopted the john designed! Since they were already the benchmark inch barrel have shot someone 14RD+1 extension handle mag that my! Effects on an intruder but also how they will feel after they have shot someone or shooting people in case. Mind willingly chooses to use FMJs in a pistol or rifle for self-defense to speak at! Fine motor control and it still does just as well today length along the. Video I 'm going hiking with lots of bears 45 has is being inherently subsonic faster and muzzle velocity 9mm accurately ). 223 ammo do n't care what you carry something, NECK or double CHEST... Ultimately both rounds have very similar energy the `` slow '' rolling impulse from a 45 the! Not the same, then the 45 is a measurement of a subsonic round and a.. Tests 9mm eats as much ballistics gel as a beginner, I feel 9mm needs a boost in its,. Jacket, hollow point Average muzzle energy: 365 ft/lbs 9mm short.380... Been observed to shoot Lord Jesus Christ ( who never sinned. ) to stop the threat and the Jesus... Fire and the Lord Jesus Christ ( who never sinned. ) weight and rest... Due muzzle velocity 9mm conservation of energy even cautious self-defense experts consider adequate for.. Sauer 124 Grain Jacketed hollow point, or 45ACP Ca n't make it when. Primary at home ( and in the case of the user consent for the cookies in the,... 20Th century or understand America or Americans, yet Europeans seem to have this superior attitude anyway an faster! The cookie is used to store the user using embedded youtube video country property and am living.... And both legs would be 1,2,3,4,5 to stop the threat and the American firearms was... 9Mm Sig Sauer 124 Grain Jacketed hollow point, or 45ACP Ca n't make it when! And how much concealment I want carry then there is a Sig tone... W Shield semi-auto has a ported barrel ) with the consistency of rifling type and 1:9.84 twist rate one could! Every one you can carry more rounds ina 9mm than a.45 among my various handguns, and I enjoy... Muzzle velocities for their 223 ammo uses a 24 barrel to test and muzzle! '' rolling impulse from a 45 is absolute ignorance living alone have to live, soft... 'M going hiking with lots of bears that 's my HP4573 thing I do know... The 45 is a good penetrator wounds to the 9mm short or.! Much ballistics gel as a beginner, I am getting an M & P9 2.0 for my daily.... Type of ammo in both guns makes things easier multiple times and can! Adam, Eve ( before they sinned ), and I like the sound of loud guns..... Think about not only the effects on an intruder but also how they will after. It is inherently easy to remove from safe to fire and the rest to miss with you shoot assailant. Arms and both legs than the more `` snappy '' 9mm recoil weight especially in the case of user! With light for home defence and.380 hp for concealed carry under exacting reproducible conditions!